SAN

Indian ‘Journalist’ Slams Gurbaksh Singh Than Admits to Receiving Information from ‘Agencies’

admin December 26, 2013 63 Comments
Indian ‘Journalist’ Slams Gurbaksh Singh Than Admits to Receiving Information from ‘Agencies’

After 42 Days of his Hunger Strike, the Indian Media has been almost entirely absent – until now.

In an article published by the Hindustan Times, journalist Pawan Sharma paints an entirely one-sided picture. From labelling Gurbaksh Singh a radical and militant to calling him a liar to questioning the authenticity of his fast, Mr. Sharma provides an unbalanced piece that disallows anyone from Gurbaksh Singh’s team an opportunity to voice their concerns.

Mr. Sharma attributes his claims to an “anonymous” government source that suggests the hunger strike by Gurbaksh Singh is a “miracle” or as Mr. Sharma suggest a farce and a lie.

Fortunately, in a video posted on facebook, when confronted by a Canadian medical practioner, Dr. Avtar Singh from British Columbia, the journalist is asked how he can verify the validity of his claim that Gurbaksh Singh has only lost  4 kg’s of weight, without knowing his starting and current weight.

Mr. Sharma who initially refuses to answer the question after being asked repetatively finally concedes that the information he received has come from the Government Agencies and Doctors.

In India, the term agencies is often used to describe the secret service and intelligence bureaus that work diligently to suppress minority rights and movements.

Have a look at the article and listen to a recording of the conversation below.

HINDUSTAN TIMES ARTICLE:

HTGurbakshSingh

JOURNALIST ADMITS TO RECEIVING INFORMATION FROM AGENCIES

facebookavtarsingh

Like this Article? Share it!

63 Comments

  1. anon December 31, 2013 at 8:25 pm

    @Inderjeet I do agree the Indian government is corrupt but for your information it is not only made up of Hindus there is a large chunk of Sikhs that also make up this society. So if the information being given is from the indian government stop accusing HINDUS as the only ones behind this.

  2. Jeet Singh January 1, 2014 at 5:03 pm

    You’re a dumb bitch anon. You still haven’t replied to any of my questions. Why were 40 other gurudwaras attacked on the same day? Why did they choose the day of Guru Arjan Dev Jis day of shaheedi to attack? Why was there no arrest warrant out for Sant Jarnail? Answer these questions you dumb fucking hindu cunt.
    “When all other avenues fail it is right to pick up the sword.” Thats a quote from the 10th guru, he also would be labeled a “terrorist” to you pathetic cow piss drinking hindus

  3. anon January 1, 2014 at 10:48 pm

    @Jeet Singh I would reply to you if you were more civil and respectful in your response. This website has been created for a movement of peace love and justice. If you want love, justice and peace – give those three things in return. Dont excpect people to be nice to you if your being impolite.

    Targetting my religion and making a joke out of it just shows what kind of values you have – and obviously they dont correspond to the values of this group. My religion is who I am – and your religion of sikhi is who you are and not once did I point a finger at your religion or made a joke out of it. I hope other members of this group are more intellectual and civil in their responses and follow the values of this movement.

    Ps work on yourself and make yourself a better person before trying to make a greater change in the world.

  4. Anonymous January 5, 2014 at 4:37 am

    Anon…Let me take your arguments one by one.

    1. “You want to learn about the way things happened”…See your rigid attitude suggests that you are neither JUST RECENTLY exposed to the issue not you want to learn anything.

    2. Hatred toward Hindus in Canada..It should not be so but whatever happend in India (imagine 84 genocide and army attack on you holiest shrine), hatred is quite natural.

    3. “Blue Star to capture SANT Jarnail Singh”….If they had this intention, there were other means like seizing the temple cut off all supplies. Nobody uses Armu attacks with tanks to capture its own citizen. He was sitting their for quite long so WHY INDIRA WAS IN SO HORRY…if you really want the reason, it was all due to impending elections and the fact that Indira was losing ground very fast and was even convicted by a UP court for manuplating poll results. Details you can research

    3. ” Indira Gandhi had clearly stated to not attack the golden temple “…worst of all arguments…you believe the truthfullness of this Nehru dynasty? Ask anyone in India (recently Rahul Gandhi s statement on Muzzafurnagar ISI links)…they just cook stories to fool illiterate of India which make majority of their vote banks,,,,WAKE UP!!!!

    4.” General Kuldip Singh who had initated the attack “…IF a so called sikh initiated on GOI order, it never justifies the attack so giving such an argument is foolish on your part. THink on it.

    5.” Jarnail Singh was an extremist who was classified as a terrorist”…Yes he was an Extremist and being an extremist on Truth and Humanity is not a sin. He was never ever a Terrorist..Listen to what Mr Shashi Kant, Ex DGP and a values human rights activists has to say about him. His image has been tarnished beyond imaginations.

    6.”He had invaded the holy golden temple with machine guns and weapons”…You don’t know Sikh history. SIkh temples had been captured by the wrong people at many times and were freed from time to time. It was not INVASION but LIBERATION of temples from wrong hands. And as far as weapons are concerned, they are a part of Khalsa way of Life. Give me a single instance when Sant Ji or any of his allys, harmed even a single Hindu. Majority of population in Amritsar City (that too around Golden Temple) is still Hindu. If he had been a terrorist, Amritsar would have been Hindu-less. Wake Up!!!!!!

    7. ” younger generation today (especially the sikhs) are being fed information from only one side”…Not at all…i would put it like this that younger sikh generation has woke up to the past…and that is the best thing…And there nothing like all hindus are bad….i have hindu friends adn we all have…but a start difference between younger Sikh and Hindu population is that while an awake and intellectual Hindu would move AWAY from his religion, an awake and intellectual Sikh will always come closer to his religion. And reason you need to search in yourself. Have you ever questioned why you guys worship Shiva Lingam (which translates in English to …)….why you call you call your God a Challiya ( a trickster)….and what and how women have been treated in your Granths (holly books)…why there is nothing like Human Equality in your religion rather whole lot of casteism…So don’t underestimate sikh youth..they can’t be misled…they are awake

    8. ” providing information to innocent kids regarding revenge and the wrong doings of the indian government will not result positively”…positivism does not mean turning you face from reality. Your religion says “Satyamev Jayte”…for that to happen first the truth must be surfaced…you know, you don’t know an iota of sikh history. We have seen times worse than this..enemies worse than Indira…and rulers worse than GOI…and massacres worse than 1984…and we never forget those things…they all make a part of our Ardas, our Stories, our History….you have JUST been exposed to 1984, a sikh child is exposed to Sikh history right from his childhood…that is why we have Sant Jarnail Singh, Satwant Singh, Beant Singh, Kehar Singh and women like Harjit Kaur (one who attacked Gen Brar)…and they are our Heros because they care more about Truth and Justice than their personal lives.

    to be contd….

  5. Jatinder Singh January 5, 2014 at 5:56 am

    Post was not meant to be Anonymous…

    1. “riot led by some un educated Hindus “….WRONG…It was implemented by Uneducated but LED and CONCEIVED by FAIRLY EDUCATED indian National Congress Leadership and applauded and mummed over by amlost everybody in India. These were uneducated Jaat and Gurger poulation of Delhi and Haryana who made majority of attackers. ((((Jaats who have recently done the same sort of riot against Muslims in Muzzafurnagar. The only difference is that this time the massacre was designed by BJP.))))Trains were reserved to carry them from parts of Haryana to Delhi. How could they make a riot in the National Capital which also happens to be a big Cantonment Area too, for 3-4 days and nights…and celebraties like Amitabh Bachan fueling the riot saying on National TV that ” Hamari Mata ke khoon ke chete katilo ke ghar tak jaane chahiye)…Rubbish…you know our blood boild when we that monster talking big on TV….And the most popular Indian Prime Minister Mr Atal Bihari Bajpai calling Indira Gandhi, Durga, post Operation Blue Star…And you expect us to forget all that…After all this, they are not ready to regret it officially and punish the culprits…..Can you imagine such thing happening to you Indians (haven’t called Hindus) in Canada…

    2. “they dont try finding out WHY it happened”…Dear Ms Researcher…you have not answered the questions put by a fellow member Jeet Singh…you can’t escape those questions making any excuses…Do some more research.

    3. “giving a bad name to all the Hindus and saying they all were part of this is kind of unreal.”…nobody blames all hindus..it was all planned by GOI..but Hindus remained mum over the issue. Noone came forward to support the victims and the cause (likes of your family were rare otherwise there won’t have been a death toll of 10000+ in 3 days. Dont tell me official figure of 3000. It is OFFICIAL).

    4. “Hindu were also killed in the riots”…unbelievable or rarest or rare.

    5. “Indian government is NOT ALL made of Hindus there are Sikhs in it too “..Lolz…Dear Ma’am..if you Indian politics…It is Hindus that too from one state of UP, that too from 1-2 caste who rule the nation…Indian government, media, industry is controlled by Baman-Banis nexus (other so called hindus of lower castes are not even closer)…Name any big company, Media house (this why Indian media is so biased), Minister or Beaurocrat, he will either be Baman or Bania…or at the best Rajput….

    And dont tell me that they are there on the merit….Most of Bania businessmen like Ambanis of Reliance, Mittals of Bharti, Agarwal of Vedanta, Goel of Jet Airways, Jindals of Jindal Group..have sold the nation to foreigners to get bigger. And all of them are in controversy. Ma’am you are quite a researcher so do some reasearch on that too.
    And this Hindustan Times is controlled by Birlas (bania).

    And PM …lols….need i say anything on him..world knows he is a rubber stamp…

    6. ” Hindu Gods did not fight for land and ladies”…My fellow member must be refering to Mahabharta…You are too naive…not one but all Sikh Gurus were born in Hindu families….And let me tell you Hindu itself is not even a religion…research why a certain part of yours emphasises this fact taht the religion actually was Arayan religion or vedic religion…details i never researched but you can….And please answer the question i put on your religion in the last comment of mine.

    7. ” but his actions progressively became a bit violent. BUDDY HE WAS A TERRORIST”…Contradiction here in your own argument….a BIT violent action can term a man Terrorist!!!”…And can you suggest which violent actions you are talking of.

    8. “religious sikh man/women carries a Karpan NOT a GUN or is equipped with grenades”….Ma’an here is where the start differnce comes in….Kirpan is an Arm to fight injustice. And believe me Sikhism goes beyond sheer Symbolism. What is the use of carrying a Kirpan when you are going to fight monsters carrying Guns and Grenades ? You can establish justice by wielding Kirpans in today’s battlefield…

    And tell me where he used his grenades on Hindus of Amritsar…? Not even at a single event but for self defence when army attacked them.

    He had a cause. Establishing a separate nation. It was not a path of flowers but of Guns and Grenades. Ms Researcher!!! Kashmir’s people want a separate nation so who can stop them from having it. Before British Raj, India was not a single nation but various princely states. So who gives the leaders of one state (Uttar Pradesh who have majority of seats in Parliament) to decide on the destiny of Punjab which was a separate nation erstwhile. Why India is not ready for a referendum in JK. Why Tamils, Nagas, Nexals, Sikhs, Muslims, all want separate nations? Research it Ms researcher. It is due to the fact that we don’t want to be ruled by incompetent people of a state called UP. Why the Indian government is not ready to give more rights to states? It is quite obvious way of governance keeping in mind the fact that we were separate princely states before the British Raj.

    You can’t get your rights if you beg for them, you have to take them forcefully. Despite so much progress on civilising Human race, we still have more of Animal instincts. Tell me why you Rama went to fight Ravaan, burn Lanka and kill thousands of innocent not only human beings but so called vannars when there could have been a diplomatic way ? And Sant ji had not invaded anu Lanka he was just to defend his own home.

    Have bigger, deeper and honest picture in mind before crysallize your opinions. In fact you have been mis-informed by the CONTENT YOU HAVE R=GONE THROUGH to believe that Sant Ji was a terrorist. Having guns and grenades never makes anyone a terrorist. If it were so, then you Lord Rama, Krishna all would be the ones.

    “””De Di Hamei Azzaadi Bina Khadag Bina Dhaal””” happens only in Indian Movie Songs or in Indian Hostory textbooks, not in practice. Bina Khadag ke Dalali ho sakti hai, Azaadi nahi mil sakti.

    9. “Indian army which has sikhs and hindus”…You don’t know a bigger part of the story. You know how many Sikhs were there in Indian Army but don’t know how many Sikhs rebelled from Indian Army post Operation Blue Star. How many of them left their salaries, pensions, faced court marshels, and how many of them were buthered on their ways back to their homes. And you don’t know the man in charge of Singh at Darbar Sahib himself was an ex army general (Gen Shubaig SIngh)..who left his peaceful, respectful, cozy retirement days to fight against injustice….This is what we call sacrifice. This is what Sikh Quom is…Wake Up!!!!!

    10. “you do a bit of research on reality of this event by looking at this video. “” hilarious…you do your research on Youtube videos…Ms Researcher Youtube is good for watching Bollywood Songs…the truth is always burried under the seven layers, you need courage to dig it out….we have faced it so we know it…we have listened to it since our childhoods… you have JUST BEEN EXPOSED…but we have been exposed to this when had not learnt to speak…

    10.” large chunk of Sikhs “…lolz…LARGE chunk..the few that are there are just the FACE of it…RUBBER STAMPED faces to show the international community that they are there…Ms Researcher…let me tell you one thing…never judge people from their face (large chunk of sikhs), nor from what they talk (indira saying she never intends to attacke golden temple)…but from what they do (operation blue star, 1984 and 2002)…

    11. “Targetting my religion and making a joke out of it just shows what kind of values you have”…Ma’am criticism is a sign of healthy society…take it positively and reason out the wrong practices in your religion. It is not just with your religion. As the time passes every religion becomes more of a symbol than reason. And that is truly required for a GREATER CHANGE in the world that you talked about. Think on things like idol worship, linga puja, raas leela, cow worshiping, snake worshipping, casteism in your religion. Nobody is here to downplay your religion. But you have to be analytical in believing anything.

    12. Lastly do some better neutral research on everything before you enter other’s houses shouting over and balming their elder and respected ones (sant ji).

  6. StopHatred January 5, 2014 at 10:55 pm

    Jatinder Singh,

    You spoke about reason and analysis that is the only reason I wanted to write.. I am Hindu and I will be the first to tell you, lot of injustice happened to Sikhs in India. For that matter, it has happened to every community in India. I will give you very simple example of injustice to Hindus….Biharis and UPites who work in Bombay, the local govts there hate these bhaiyyas and so much so that they are killed, beaten up and even their hands cut off by the Marathi political parties. But should these bhaiyyas start hating Marathi people for that? This is the main thing you need to think about. How many assamese, naxals, blah blah blah have been killed by this govt and very big majority of them were Hindus.

    That is the main point I want to note here. Yea healthy criticism is great but your hatred for Hindus is not because they believe in Cows, snakes and what else in fact your religion doesn’t permit that…but it is because somewhere in your heart you hold Hindus responsible for 1984.

    You also said, that Hindus did nothing…That is wrong and you know it is wrong. Yes, in those days there were only very few Hindus who stood by Sikhs but you know very well the atmosphere that was created by Govt….It put all faults on Sikhs….But over years, I have seen many shows on TVs in support of Justice and many Hindus have spoken about it. You know very well that is true. That time there was no internet and no social media and only one govt controlled channel and radio. You know very well it was very easy to create propaganda and govt did that.

    So just like anon I too would like to say that holding Hindus responsible for this is very unfair in itself and you want to fight war of fairness and justice with unfairness. Remember..Ben franklin said…”Justice will never be served until everyone unaffected by it is equally appalled. So instead of hating Hindus…Why don’t you stand by us…How do you expect to create khalistan on sword and religion and expect Hindus to stand by it? That is like in your future khalistan hindus ask for separate homeland and Sikhs are supposed to support it, no matter how right the Hindus are.

    Other then that…I am all for healthy criticism and yes I accept few of the very bad things in Hinduism but please don’t hate Hindus for it because before 1984 and after 1984, there has been very few or no deaths of Sikhs at the hands of Hindus. What does that tell you? Why don’t you see clear issue between congress and Sikhs that was born out of power struggle between akalis and congress in Punjab? Yes, congress plays that dirty politics….yes it does…Even today they divided Andhra Pradesh and caused riots for their votes….You heard that in news right?

    So I am sorry…You talk about analysis and reason but your analysis and reason is enveloped by lot of your hatred, hatred which I understand actually but it is misdirected to be honest and if I am lying, go ahead and tell me how many 1984 type riots have happened before or after 1984?

    You also mentioned Gujarat riots somewhere…no doubt…god is witness of my heart and intentions and no innocent should every die. But no one ever feels bad for innocent Hindus dead and false propaganda keeps going on from other side. Riots started after godhra where 58 Hindus were killed and even in riots 40% of dead were Hindus yet only number that I have heard anyone ever quote is death of Muslims. You go ahead and tell me how fair is that? Oh yea, that godhra was conspiracy right? Yea, train was supposed to stop at train station…some hindus and some muslim tea stall owner have an argument and train was burned and 58 hindus killed….So you are saying that the Hindu terrorists, in that time between the argument with muslim tea stall owner and hindus and train leaves and created the master plan to create riots? That is your reason and analysis?

    You also mentioned muzaffarnagar riots somewhere…let’s not believe whatever we hear in news(it was written by hindus anyway) but what we know is that riots had its roots in bothering of a hindu woman by muslim…and you and I both know history, so let me ask you. Who is more likely to abduct, rape, bother women of other religions? That is just great….you mentioned few times that picking up weapon when injustice happens to you is right but whether it is gujrat or up, when Hindus stand up we are criminals. Nice!

    So I am sorry Jatinder….you aren’t really reasonable or analytical and you know what amazes me? that sure….the killers were actually Hindus in delhi riots but you accept that it was all congress’ doing so you accept it was all political but I heard hear you Sikhs talk about Muslims killing so many of your Sikhs and that was not even political…it was purely based on religion. But I never hear you show the same hatred to Muslims? So Muslims are vindicated of any crimes that were purely based on religion while Hindus are not which was purely based on politics? Great analysis and reason there Jatinder!?!?!?!?!?! Heck muslims and not political but purely local people riot in Pakistan(just few days ago by the way) when a Hindu is buried in same graveyard. It is not bad enough that there is no crematory but even buried in same graveyard is a crime in Pakistan yet Hindus are the most hated folks in South asia? That is just great!!!! Just great.

    Oh and by the way….Bhindranwale…even in his case, I am not going to say he is absolutely wrong…Govt was more wrong but go ahead and dare deny that he did not give hate speech against Hindus? Go ahead and try that for me…..and you call him Sant? That is just great…you pick fight with Congress and because majority are Hindus,,,,you get to give hate speech against Hindus? Oh by the way…Indira Gandhi was not even Hindu. She was not allowed to visit famous temples of pashupatinath and puri temple. Go google that….

    There are no grudges Mr. We can all forgive and forget but when you hate religion and its followers then you are creating nothing but hatred and I highly doubt any of your Gurus will approve of that. Sikhs rioted when some idiot dressed like Guru Gobind Sikh yet you want to be analytical and reasonable about Hindu practices? That is your definition of reason and analysis?

    Just let this type of hatred go…please? Both you and I would’ve been born even if our parents were not Sikhs or Hindus. That means we are Humans first. For that Humanity’s sake you and all Sikhs, but please don’t hate us for crime of very few who we don’t even consider Hindu. I do not hate every Muslim or anyone. But if we are going to talk justice, truth, fair et el…lets first follow it. Don’t ever forgive and I as a Hindu am with my heart so thankful to Sikhs for keeping the struggle for justice alive. You aren’t only fighting for your justice but you are doing nation a great favor, the biggest ever. I as a Hindu think that Sikhs being in India is the biggest fortune of them all, not only for all the sacrifices in past but their struggle for justice. I am forever thankful! But please direct your anger correctly so the correct guilty gets punished. They should be given death penalty even if they are 99 years old.

  7. Anonymous January 7, 2014 at 2:31 pm

    Dear Mr Stop Hatred…i was exptecting you to first quote me b’fore framing your replies…pls next time do that…replying on statements that i never mentioned anywhere in my reply does not make any sense….

    I will answer you, by quoting you statement in inverted commas…Lets start.

    1..”Biharis and UPites who work in Bombay, the local govts there hate these bhaiyyas and so much so that they are killed, beaten up “….

    Dear Sir, how can you compare these two situations….Any man of even a little sense and analytical ability would be able to distinguish between the two situations….Just tell me how many of them were killed in cold blood, in day light, in National Capital, in a well planned genocide, by the State itself….How many of them were killed by the National Army in well planned operation on their holies shrine ? And still if you want to compare, this injustice happened to them not owing to their religion but statehood….And it happened in Maharashtra not in Bihar and thousands of Sikhs were killed in Punjab itself…..And as far as hatred in concerned, ask any Naxal or Tamil he will answer you what sort of pain lies in their heart…

    And Sorry you haven’t read my post with eyes and senses open….tell me where did i say that we hate anyone…we just demand justice which the state denies…

    2 “but it is because somewhere in your heart you hold Hindus responsible for 1984.”

    Sorry sir, it is what you perceive and perception is not reality. Rationalism is an integral part of religion i believe in. Thousands years back our first Guru ( when he was a little kid), denied to wear the thread ( janeau) as it symbolises division between human beings who are considered equal in eyes of the Lord Almighty.

    So at first there is no hatred for Hindus. Hatred is for injustice. Hatred is for the fact that we have been deprived of equal rights which i can discuss in details in a separate post if you love to read about it.

    3. “.But over years, I have seen many shows on TVs in support of Justice and many Hindus have spoken about it.”…

    Dear Sir, here is where the closed mentality comes in. Read your statement above, very carefully and tell me if media broadcasted (m)any shows, would you call that Hindus did it..????

    And let me clarify, media covered because there were SEVERE protests in delhi by the people like JARNAIL SINGH Ji who dared to thorw shoe on a minister (which then was covered by the whole world)…it was at that time when few channels like NDTV covered the issue positively. You can’t say Hindus did something. AND DON’T FORGET IT WAS AFTER MORE THAN 25 YEARS. And don’t forget culprits are still free.

    And dear sir i would have said that Hindus (or the majority) did something if any sort of protest like what happened in case of Delhi Rape Case would had happened. Tell me if you or any of you distant friends participated in the protests, or signed any plea or ever visited Trilokpuri (you must not be knowing what significance it holds)?…

    Dear Sir, the country can come together for one case like (Nirbhaya Rape) but can’t support even in mild words the pogrom where thousands of NIRBHAYAS were raped and murdered. And the core of it lies MEDIA which is controlled by few as i said earlier too if you have read my earlier posts.

    4. “So just like anon I too would like to say that holding Hindus responsible for this is very unfair in itself and you want to fight war of fairness and justice with unfairness”

    Dear Sir now it seems whole of your content was meaningless as neither I nor anyone else here anywhere held Hindus responsible. I said you people ( and for that part, all of us) are habitual not to speak against injustice. And that is why we were bore slavery for as many as THOUSAND YEARS.

    5. “.Ben franklin said”…

    Who is this fellow?

    6. “Ben franklin said…”Justice will never be served until everyone unaffected by it is equally appalled. So instead of hating Hindus…Why don’t you stand by us…How do you expect to create khalistan on sword and religion and expect Hindus to stand by it”…

    Dear this is the most absurd argument i have ever came across….You are saying that we stand by you for bearing injustice till the time we all are affected by it…I can simply say, that was the attitude we bore the injustice for MORE THAN ONE THOUSAND YEARS..WAKE UP SIR!!!!

    And sir where in my entire post i mentioned that i favor Khalistan…No i don’t..others on this forum may differ but i simply don’t want Khalistan..as i know i would be a BADAL-Land with no central reins…

    7..”don’t hate Hindus for it because before 1984 and after 1984,”…

    Sir again meaningless argument. Again, i never in any of my content, held hindus responsible for 1984 and don’t have any hatred for them….And in fact most of my close friends are hindus only.

    8 “go ahead and tell me how many 1984 type riots have happened before or after 1984?”

    So sir, you are waiting for other riots to happen?

    And why do you forget how many sikhs were killed on the name of terrorism in the aftermath of 1984 riots. Sir wake up and see what is happening in other parts of India. I am against the state policies not any religion or ethnicity.

    And you yourself have mentioned Gujrat and Muzzafarnagar.

    9. “.you aren’t really reasonable or analytical and you know what amazes me? ”

    Dear Sir b’fore jusdging me abilities, please quote anything that i said only then present your argument. Just imagining arguments on my behalf and then answering does not make any sense.

    10. “you are saying that the Hindu terrorists,”…

    Sir it is enough, where did i mentioned this word in whole of my content..

    11. ” riots had its roots in bothering of a hindu woman by muslim…”..

    Dear Sir, who propagated fake MMS? The people who bothered women could have been dealt individually but this fake MMS which showed the Muslim brotherhood killing brutally Hindu youths was the ROOT you are misinterpreting….Sorry Sir WAKE UP!!!!!

    12. “(it was written by hindus anyway)”

    Dear Sir it was WRITTEN by BJP not hindus. You are totally confused.

    13. ” Who is more likely to abduct, rape, bother women of other religions?”

    Sir those you are refering to were Arab/Afghan Invadors. Those who are left here are converts. So their history is your history. And their bloob is your blood. Wake Up!!!!

    14. “I heard hear you Sikhs talk about Muslims killing so many of your Sikhs and that was not even political…it was purely based on religion. But I never hear you show the same hatred to Muslims?”…

    Dear Sir…Again repeating, no hatred for any religion, Hindu or Muslim….You perceived that i hate Hindus and cooked all your sotry on that….THINK AGAIN…

    and for your knowledge Muslims killed Sikhs AS WELL AS HINDUS in 1947..

    12. ” go ahead and dare deny that he did not give hate speech against Hindus?”

    Dear Sir, i could not find one in 10 years of my research…Not against any religion but yes against GOI. If you have any links pls present…i would be happy to change my views.

    13. “Indira Gandhi was not even Hindu. She was not allowed to visit famous temples of pashupatinath and puri temple. Go google that….”

    Sir you have based all your story on an assumption that i hate hindus…that is wrong…and that is you own perception…i hate this system and the mentality people at large hold…And yes as far as religion in concerned, i still believe yours is filled with nonsense….and that is why you have stories like Asaram. I never say we don’t have any….But whatever wrong we have we speak against that. For example increasing idolism, fake ceremonies like paying for prayers in Gurdwara…and i just advised that u ppl should speak against the irrationalities in your religion…you must question as i said…worshipping shiva Lingam ( sir what that is?), and Stories of Krishan raas leela…You know Asaram was playing this raas leela…

    14. ” I highly doubt any of your Gurus will approve of that.”..

    Let me clarify your doubts sir,,,all our gurus spoke against irrational and blind faith….going against casteism, idol worship, luxury in temples (which is the case with sikhs also these days). Guru Nanak was so much against these nonsense traditions that he was called “Bhootna” by contemporaries…Sir i don’t hate hinduism…i have read people like Swami Vivekananda, Swami Dayananda who themselves spoke against the irrational traditions i mentioned…if you are not like to move beyond those blind faiths, you are missing a treasure which lies beyond and deeper than that shallowness…you think that i speaking against any religion but i feel i spaek against irrational beliefs…

    15. “Sikhs rioted when some idiot dressed like Guru Gobind ”

    Dear Sir…i never ever approve that…and it is one of those grounds where i would openly speak against sikhs too…it is not that i am against using weapons…it would have been great if that sword was applied on someone like Sajjan Kumar or tytler rather than destroying public property.

    16. ” That is your definition of reason and analysis?”

    Sir you are utterly confused….that violence in nowhere writtern in our religion. And i am question the reasoning and rationality of your religious practice not the acts of people following the religion.

    So please think twice b’fore you write anything. THis way you are wasting my precious time.

    17. “please don’t hate us for crime of very few who we don’t even consider Hindu.”..

    Dear Sir,..i feel like crying now…where did in any of my posts i said in ahte any hindu. Yes practices i do (irrespective of religion). Govt policies i do. If anything Linga Puja would happen in sikhism, i would hate it…i even hate (practice not people) bowing their heads to anything they find in gurudwara….

    18. “I as a Hindu think ”

    Dear Sir, i respect you thoughts but we need supports (in practice) not just thoughts, in fighting against injustice meted out to Sikhs by GOI goons who were fearless of law and order. And belive me if you people still won’t wake up against injustice the heat you feel very soon. What happened the victim of Delhi Rape was a trailer of what happened to thousands of sikhs in 1984. And it is a signal that if you don’t wake up to injustice, it can happen to anyone of you by your own people as it happened with Nirbhaya……

  8. Jatinder January 7, 2014 at 2:39 pm

    Dear Mr Stop Hatred

    I never wanted to answer your post as it was most illogical one.

    You entire post was based on the ASSUMPTION that i hate Hindus which is false. You just INFERRED from some lines in my post that i hate hindus and based your entire post on that inference.

    You seemed so much confused in your entire post. Argued upon your own imaginations. You quoted many things which bore no reference to my post (like Indira Gandhi was not a Hindu).

    Sir you were answering me so you must be very much clear of my arguments or queries.

    Sir next time you answer my post please quote me CLEARLY AND SPECIFICALLY so that neither you nor I get confused anywhere.

    Regards

  9. Jatinder January 7, 2014 at 2:59 pm

    Mr Stop Hatred..

    You have not read my first posts…Many places i mentioned that i am not against Hindus and quoted truly wonderful phrases like “Satymev Jayte” from Hinduism. And you just ASSUMED that i hate hindus and based your entire post on it.

    It would have been better if you had ansered my concerns one by one, point by point.

  10. Jatinder January 7, 2014 at 3:03 pm

    Mr Stop Hatred

    “Oh and by the way….Bhindranwale…even in his case, I am not going to say he is absolutely wrong”

    Sir you can’t say because he was not wrong at all…See there are no grey shades as far as truth is concerned. It is either Black or White.

    Look at me, I can say with full confidence that Indira was WRONG…i can say with full grit that TYTLEER, SAJJAN were WRONG….I can say with full determination that Hindu Rites are challengeable and need a drastic change..

    Speak like this…Speak with grit and confidence

  11. StopHatred January 8, 2014 at 12:36 am

    Jatinder Singh,

    As for your first post, then I have no issues. I thought you were clearly showing hatred. But then mistakenly or not, I made some valid points especially regarding gujrat and up riots. I would be curious as for why, you being a third party in both riots, do not rightly quote what needs to be quoted? I told you(and I mistakenly told you 40% earlier) that 1/3 of dead in Gujarat riots were hindus yet you make it modi and hindu terrorists issue. Same thing with UP, it is not only muslims that were killed, woman was bothered first and hindus were attacked first. So a man who is talking about justice and fairness, how come you don’t speak truth when Hindus are affected? Are you saying right of Hindus don’t count? I am sorry, Gujarat and UP were only religious riots because both parties were affected, if more muslims died in Gujarat it is because there are more Hindus and if muslims are more affected in UP it is because there are more Hindus. Pretty simple. Meanwhile, delhi riots was 100% political and proof of that is not too many hindus or muslims were killed. Sikhs were systematically attacked. So you see, please don’t pack them all together and make us Hindus look bad. As far as Hindus are concerned, whether it is today or 1000 years ago, we were always at disadvantage. We have always paid with blood and soil. As far as Sikhs are concerned, yes attackers were 99% hindus, I am no liar and I will not deny that. For that I am as sorry as I can be from my heart. I do not have a way to explain my feelings. But you need to direct your anger at correct party.

    When truth cannot be obtained by evidence, reason will prove it. It will in fact prove it better than evidence itself. You see, the fact that Hindus were also killed in Gujarat and UP, I doubt it was political otherwise with all the power CMs and politicians have, Muslims would’ve died lot more, just like only Sikhs died in Delhi. There may be some involvement, I cant deny that, but reason speaks against overwhelming political and reason speaks for overwhelming religious case for UP and Gujarat. Delhi was totally different topic.

    For your second post, you are basically telling me to go get some guts but fact is it is you who is talking without guts and in fact you are contradicting yourself BIG TIME. Let me tell you how…On one hand you are saying you have no hatred for Hindus but on other hand I am challenging you to tell me just once that Bhindranwale did not give hate speech against Hindus, challenge which you are not taking yet you are saying, he was not wrong at all.

    So explain to me Jatinder, if Bhindranwale was not wrong at all, when he gave hate speech against Hindus, you are either hating hindus or you are not. You cant be both! How could hate speech giver be completely right according to you and at same time you do not hate hindus? Pretty contradictory there Jatinder. Sorry, I reiterate my challenege since you asked me for grit and confidence, either you tell me Bhindranwale never gave hate speech against Hindus(and I will disprove that so easily so before you say that do your research) or you take it back your claim that you don’t hate Hindus. You either hate Hindus or you are going to say that Bhindranwale was wrong at leat in that part. I am not going to let you have both because one of them is a lie.

    Lets talk grit and confidence Mr Singh because you challenged me to absolute truth now world will see who is more truthful in this debate.

    From my part, I do not deny evils of Hinduism whether it is caste system or snake worship or cow worship. Actually, aside from caste system, I do not see any evils in Hinduism. Things may be relatively wrong but caste system is the only thing that is absolutely wrong because there is actual harm to so called lower caste. But other practices, you and I may think it is wrong but they have never harmed you. Never. In fact, that kind of freedom of religion has only existed in India and that is why best religions in my opinion were born in India and best things also came out of it. When you set a man free, sure there will be some bad things but good men will create great things. Yoga, meditation, brahma gyani, Ayurveda, and million other things were invention of that free will. I am pretty sure many of those things invented out of free will are also part of your religion. …and yes I also agree…Hinduism is not even a religion. It is a belief of country of India, if anything I would call it Yogism.

  12. StopHatred January 8, 2014 at 12:40 am

    Anon,

    I am sorry, I quoted you once or twice in my post. All I meant to say is that “Like anon, I hate the fact that Hindus get hated for this when before or after 1984 we have seldom caused you any harm.

    Again, I am sorry. You went in to religious stuff in your reply. Frankly I have no interest in that debate, if anything I have high respect for your religion. In fact, truth is I go to gurudhwara myself and I also go to Hindu temples. I have nothing against your religion and I am not even a fanatic I am only about reason and while Sikhs like Jatinder are so right 8 times, it is 2 times that they are also SO WRONG that is what I am discussing with him.

  13. Jatinder January 8, 2014 at 5:10 am

    Stop Hatred

    I already asked you to quote me first as i did ( i quoted your remarks in inverted commas first and then asnwered) and then post your replies.

    THe way your are debating is senseless.

    1. “Are you saying right of Hindus don’t count?”

    Quote my words from where you inferred i hate hindus. i repeatedly said that i don’t hindus and you seem to have an agenda to prove that i do.

    2. ” 1/3 of dead in Gujarat riots ”

    Gujrat i just referred. I don’t know much that how many hindus or muslims were killed but certainly most were muslims.

    3. ” I am challenging you to tell me just once that Bhindranwale did not give hate speech against Hindus”

    Okay i tell you the instances. He did not give hatred speech on jan 25, april 26, oct 14, 1979. Right…lolz

    You are replying without reading my post. i asked you to post the links of his speeches where he expressed any angers aginst hindus. I sais i will change my view of bhindrawalan. Where is confusion?

    I told you of Mr Shashi Kant to prove Sant Ji’s humane side.

    4. “now world will see who is more truthful in this debate.”

    You think whole world is watching our debate? lol

    5. ” I do not deny evils of Hinduism whether it is caste system or snake worship or cow worship. Actually, aside from caste system, I do not see any evils in Hinduism”

    Read you lines above. Contradiction. First you say snake worship is evil and in second you saying no evil other than caste system. ??????

    i have no words. i myself said there are numerous good things in hinduism. i just asked you to relinquish ( or prove the rationale of ) the ones which don’t make any sense like cow/snake/pitr (dead elders)/ mouse/ bull worship as they are linked to false stories. I too applaud things like Ayurveda, Meditation etc.

    Sir be specific, reasonable and read my posts carefully before you reply. And don’t forget to quote my words in inverted commas in your replies. We are here not to prove our grit but to bring the truth on surface.

    And truth is that irrational practices (like Rass Leela/ Linga Puja/ idol worship) give birth to irrationality in human beings which in turn result in evil instances like riots, scandals. Now this irrationality could be in any religion, be it sikh, hindu, jain, muslim, christians, jews, gnostics, Bodhis or others…On our part, the best we can do is to sit CALMLY in silence and think honestly on our blind faiths so that we, as a human race, may progress from being animals to being truly godly beings.

  14. Jatinder January 8, 2014 at 8:37 am

    ” I go to gurudhwara myself and I also go to Hindu temples.”

    You are wasting your time by going to Gurdwara and Temples. God lives everywhere in world but in Temples and Grudwaras….I never to Gurdwaras…they are more of tourist places and centres of power (see what happened in Patna Sahib on Guru Gobind Singh ji’s Gurpurab)….

    I am religious but not blind…i don’t turn face to the reality…I see what is happening on the name of religion…I watch what Asaram, Verma, Ramdev, SGPC are doing on the name of religion…But again Sikh struggle is not a religious one….but a fight for justice…..for human values…

    Guru Nanak by birth was a Hindu…Sikhism as religion and Khalsa particularly was established later on…but he dared to question the blind faith.

    Naamdev Ji whose gurbani lies in Guru Granth Sahib, despite himself being a hindu, said

    “Hindu Anna (Blind), Turk (muslim) Kaana..Doha te gyani syana”

    It translates to “Hindu is blind of both eyes, Turk a little better having just one eye. Ahead of these two is a knowledgeable (enlightened) man”

    So rather than wasting your petrol and time in going to Gurdwara, i suggest you just download one good translation (As there are many ‘not so good’) of Guru Granth Sahib and read and understand what Gurus and Bhagats had to say. Kabir, Namdev, Dhanna, Ravidas, Peepa were all Hindus but were not blind.

    By going to a gurdwara or (temple for that matter) you are just doing an injustice to society. You never question where the money you donated goes to. Rather than giving that bribe to God, spend that money for some good of deprived sons of God. The money you donate in Gurdwara and temples is the biggest enemy of humanity as it attracts evil instinct beings. Sai Baba who spent whole his life in simplicity and poverty is crowned in gold in Sai Temples and crores of rupees are collected on his name. You never question where that money goes. Who knows what Sai Baba wanted to preach? How many people know what sort of values and views he held? We don’t want to know because we just make Gods out of some good souls like Sai Baba and Nanak and start asking for crores of rupees by donating one single rupee in the temples.

    Wake Up!!!! Religion never meant to make you blind faithed. It was meant to enlighten you. To help you get out of eternal slumber of ages so that you may learn to question what is happening.

    Such one enlightened soul (hope he is not fake) questioned himself and the system and Delhi Governement is shaked. His name is Arvind Kejriwal. Learn from such people. Learn to question everything from God to Schools (why you waste hell lot of your life, the most precious 25 years in a mundane, criplled system called Schools?) And the produce of such a system where free souls are trained to enslave themselves, where the natural miracles of Almighty called mind is dented to make filthy crippled babus, where unbounded flow of energies and thoughts are narrowed down to wasted filthy ponds of history and geography.

    Sir this system is waste….Question it…a hell lot of wisdom lies ahead…in age of enlighened souls…the God which you try to find in Gurdwaras, temples, idols resides inside a truthful heart. And that truth won’t surface till you question your present self. The path to Heavens won’t be found unless you are willing to jump out of your blind well of narrowness

  15. Singh January 8, 2014 at 3:22 pm

    Wow. Great job Jatinder, you completely destroyed those two who were trying to throw shade on Sant Ji.

  16. Sawag (Subeg) Singh January 9, 2014 at 12:47 am

    Let me remind this Sharma guy or shall i call him Besharma that at the time of moghal raaj we Sikhs were living in the jungles feeding on mere tree leaves for months and still went on raids at night time to fight the moghals, and rescue and bring back the Hindu (his sisters, mothers,daughters and wives) that moghal use to steal from Hindu villages . so don*t under estimate the Gursikh”s powers.

  17. StopHatred January 9, 2014 at 1:26 am

    Sawag Singh,

    I would like to respond to you first!!! Now you are making this you and me. People who do something with their hearts do not count favors. None of your Gurus nor those Sikhs showed off their favors. It was just fight.

    Now if you want to start counting favors, Hindus can do the same. But I will decline to stoop low for actions that were performed by true heart, intentions and noblility. But you have done the same and you aren’t making me look bad, you are making those people who made these noble and selfless sacrifices bad.

    My argument is not with Sikhs or Sikhism at all. I only respond to people who say they are talking about truth, reason and justice. No one has ever questioned what you have done for Indians from Day one of your existence but let’s not talk favors, shall we? I don’t think even your sworn enemies like Sajjan Kumar et el made any such references denying the nobility of those warriors.

    Oh and I am no sharma or besharma, you have in fact done the besharma act by counting favors. Is that what you do? You help a needy out and then go out in whole town saying you did favors?

  18. StopHatred January 9, 2014 at 2:11 am

    Jatinder,

    Ok, let’s quote as you like it:

    “Quote my words from where you inferred i hate hindus. i repeatedly said that i don’t hindus and you seem to have an agenda to prove that i do. ”

    No there is no agenda. You did not say “I hate Hindus” specifically but every reference you were making were going towards blaming Hindus for 1984 riots. If I am trying to say anything else here is that, while Bhindranwale gave specific hate speeches where specifically referenced “Hindus” for all his problems and while you are saying he did nothing wrong but at same time saying, you do not hate Hindus. It is like saying Hitler did nothing wrong(…and no Bhindranwale was nothing bad like hitler and I am just giving reference) and then saying you love Jews. Only of the two can be true.

    “Gujrat i just referred. I don’t know much that how many hindus or muslims were killed but certainly most were muslims.”

    First and foremost, lets clarify this…no one is rejoicing any dead, especially innocent. May God bless their souls and give their souls the peace they deserve. I was just telling you that I am tired of hearing how many Muslims died but no one, and I mean NO ONE have I heard even ONCE that Hindus died too as if only death of Muslims count. Hence my question to you, if rights of Hindus don’t count. Another reason for me to say that is Gujarat was not political riot, it was religious one otherwise Hindus’s wouldn’t have died if Hindu fanatic were totally behind it. There may have been some involvement.

    “i asked you to post the links of his speeches where he expressed any angers aginst hindus.”

    But I am the one who asked first, to which you are counter asking instead of saying with “grit and confidence” as you asked me to follow. So if you really believe he did give hate speeches even once, just say it.

    “Read you lines above. Contradiction. First you say snake worship is evil and in second you saying no evil other than caste system. ??????”

    Ok, I admit I should’ve been more clear. I first said I accept the evils which included snake worship etc… But then I felt that words evil can only be used for caste system as that is the only thing that actually causes psychological, bodily, economical, harm. Rest of them are not causing any harm.

    “And truth is that irrational practices (like Rass Leela/ Linga Puja/ idol worship) give birth to irrationality in human beings which in turn result in evil instances like riots, scandals”

    I do not deny the practices are irrational. But what I said was when you set a man free, great things like meditation come about but at same time, some irrational practices come along. Just like USA, it is truly free society, it has given birth to many great things but along with it there are many irrational pratices also. as for it giving birth to scandals and riots: Now you see….You are directly saying that and putting the blames of riots on Hindus and their practices. Anyone who reads it will tell you that. Meanwhile, there is no evidence that it is these practices that has caused any riots or scandals and if you truly think it was these practices that caused scandals and riots, tell me which practice in Pakistan is causing scandals and riots against minorities? Oh maybe we are not talking about Pakistan, tell me which practice of Sikhism caused Sikhs to riot when that idiot dressed as Guru Gobind Singh and are you saying no Sikhs has ever been involved in Scams?

    So this last reply proves my first point. Maybe you geniunly don’t hate Hindus and maybe you do have respect for lots of things, but there are few prejudices in you regarding Hindus as well which are irrational because there is no evidence that Sikhs will never riot and no evidence that Sikhs have never been involved in scams. Worst part is, you are saying “truth is that these pracives…” So there you go, it proves there is some prejudice in you regarding Hindus.

  19. StopHatred January 9, 2014 at 2:20 am

    “You are wasting your time by going to Gurdwara and Temples. God lives everywhere in world but in Temples and Grudwaras…”

    This post of yours was too long and it was in reply to my post to Anon. All I was trying to tell him/her that not even one thing I am saying is against his/her religion. That is where I also said I got o Gurudhwaras and temples.

    I think this long post was useless because everything you are saying is what I already know and agree with. I do not ban myself from going to these places but I don’t go there everyday,everyweek either. I probably go to these places 2-3 times a year.

    “Hindu Anna (Blind), Turk (muslim) Kaana..Doha te gyani syana”

    I know very well what naamdev said and meant. This is straight reference from jnana yoga. I do not disagree with him and I agree that the blind beliefs that has crept in to Hindu religion over years are bad. They still exist but they are getting better now. Like I said, you will never have ideal and utopian world. With some goods there will be some bads.

  20. Jatinder Singh January 9, 2014 at 7:27 pm

    Mr Stop Hatred

    I have tried to be brief and precise.

    1. “every reference you were making were going towards blaming Hindus for 1984 riots.”

    I am waiting for that reference from last many posts.

    2. “Bhindranwale gave specific hate speeches where specifically referenced “Hindus” for all his problems”

    Give me any links or references. I bet you won’t find any.

    Listen He, you say was a terrorist with guns and grenades. Right. He was right there in heart of Amritsar city for quite long. Right. If he had any hate for Hindus he would have frightened away Hindus out of Amritsar like it happened in Kashmir. Sir, till now, there are more Hindus in Amritsar city (specifically in heart of city) than sikhs.

    And this is enough to prove you wrong if REALLY want to justify your rationale over prejudices.

    3. “and no Bhindranwale was nothing bad like hitler and I am just giving reference)”

    Beware!! Chose right references. I am telling that no Hindu was replaced out of Amritsar and you are making comparions with the architect of worst ever genocides in human history.

    4. “But I am the one who asked first, to which you are counter asking instead of saying”

    Sir it is not about first or last. We are not exchanging candies here.

    See you are pointing finger to someone. So you should find the proof of his guilt.

    Like in a courtroom, any accused is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

    Common Sense!!! i again bet you won’t find any.

    5. “Ok, I admit I should’ve been more clear.”

    Sir not just MORE clear but crystal clear. We are debating on an extremely sentivie issue not a bollywood story.

    6. “only thing that actually causes psychological, bodily, economical, harm. Rest of them are not causing any harm.”

    Sir you accepted that these practices have no rationale. So you mean irrationality caused no harm. If love to be irrational, i have nothing more to say.

    7. “I do not deny the practices are irrational.”

    Your courage to admit is plausible. Dayananda admitted and only then moved on.

    8. ” Just like USA, it is truly free society, it has given birth to many great things but along with it there are many irrational pratices also.”

    Sir if you compare India with the US on social freedom, it would be joke of the century.

    Dare you present a rose to your wife (not even GF) in India, you will not just be beaten up by VHP goons but so much humiliated publicly that you will admit that you will be siblings now onwards. Honor Killings, have you heard of the term?

    And can you name a single Noam Chomsky or Martin Luther King Jr in India? Please don’t quote any names like Gandhi, Nehru or Bajpai.

    9. “as for it giving birth to scandals and riots: Now you see….You are directly saying that and putting the blames of riots on Hindus and their practices.”

    Sir I clearly stated at more than one places that irrationality in any religion is harmful.

    And yes irrationality gives birth to riots and scandals. Let me give an example. Rational Sant Kabir says

    “Bahu parpanch kar par dhan ghar liyave.
    Sut dara peh aan lutave.
    Man mere buley kapat na keejay.
    Ant nibera tere jee peh leejay”

    Which translates to: My mind, by so many hypocisies manages to acquire other’s wealth to give comfort and luxury to his wife and daughter. Oh my mind never ever do any cheating as in the end only you have to justify all your deeds.

    Sir this is rationality. Now i talk od irrationality. We go to temple (OR GURDWARA). Buy a litre of milk (OR KRAH PRASHAD) and pour over Shiva Lingam ( OR DONATE TO GRANTH SAHIB) and theN thurst our heads thrice on floor. And what we ask for? WEALTH.

    See the stark difference between rationality and irrationality. One side Kabir tries to convince his mind to stay away from others’ wealth. Other side we ask for more and more wealth.

    And want of wealth, don’t you think, is a cause of riots and scams?

    Guru of a rationale being is Shabad, the holy word i presented before (Sant Kabir). And Guru of irrational is Idols ( or such ref from Sikhism), Lingam, Cows/snakes/bulls/mouse, will these lifeless things help you being a better individual.

    See such an irrational mind is still in the stone age. One of the most influential philosopher of western world Frederich Neiztsche found after so many years of research that “God is Dead”. You know this fellow mind was developed to the next stage human development where God was no more in idols, churches, temples, gurdwaras.

    I am asking you, let’s move to the next stage.

    “Nanak Jan kehat baat
    Binas jaye hai tero gaat
    chin chin kar gayo kaal
    aise jaat aaj hai
    raam simar raam simar
    ehe tere kaaj hai”

    that is Nanak tells his mind that every moment is passing, you do the most important task of your life. Remeber every second, His Name.

    And for irrationality (mind it, in any religion), my Shabad Guru Says

    “Kahe ko Pahan ko Pujat Hai PASU
    Pahan mei Parmesar Nahe”

    That is Oh! you Animal (mind), why are you worshipping the Stone (idols), they don’t have any God (which is not there anywhere else)

    10. ” which practice in Pakistan is causing scandals and riots against minorities?”

    Need i tell you? The best thing in Islam is that they read and remind every world of Quran. And the worst thing is that they don’t ponder upon even a single word.

    11. “which practice of Sikhism caused Sikhs to riot when that idiot dressed as Guru Gobind Singh and are you saying no Sikhs has ever been involved in Scams?”

    Though let me tell you, the rioters were most (not all) from other side. But still same with sikhs. Rants without thought.

    12. “but there are few prejudices in you regarding Hindus as well which are irrational because there is no evidence that Sikhs will never riot and no evidence that Sikhs have never been involved in scams”

    Sir i have no prejudices. I have explained everything in detail but you don’t have time to read.

    Who says sikhs don’t riot. See what happened in Patna Sahib. But we have a hell lot of activists who are always speaking and working to put things in order.

    Hindus know it is irrational still they do it, forget speaking against the irrationality.

    An example of this irrationality. At times Arabs invaded India, Indian kings, out of their comfortable lives, were not prepared enough to stand before them so they sought help from their Brahmans. And Brahmans advised that there is no need to fight. Just do yugs back in Palaces and push thoudand cows in battlefield. Arab army will get blind !!!!

    Irrationality at its best. Need more examples? You will many Babas giving funny solutions to people’s problems. Where? On National News Channels!!!!! And you love comparing India with the US ?

    You know it is irrational, but you still do it. And that is THE BIGGEST HURDLE.

  21. Jatinder Singh January 9, 2014 at 7:38 pm

    “straight reference from jnana yoga”

    How? Would really love to know.

  22. Jatinder Singh January 9, 2014 at 7:42 pm

    And Sir lastly, please if you have anything valid to say, only then post. I might not be availbale to answer your queries as I read and think upon each and every word of yours, before answering. And it takes toll on my work.

    And i just want to tell you that “Anon” which you are presuming a Sikh, is Hindu herself which she mentioned in the very first lines of her first post.

    So i request you to read carefully and think before you post.

  23. StopHatred January 10, 2014 at 3:17 am

    “I am waiting for that reference from last many posts.”

    I gave you that in last post of mine. You are obviously saying things and pointing it right at Hindu practices. If you intentionally want to note debate then don’t. Don’t make me a liar.

    “Give me any links or references. I bet you won’t find any.”

    Listen man, you don’t know how to debate. I simply asked you to not say that he did not give hate speech, all you had to do was say it. But OK, I will not keep too much ego, ego is against growth and moksha(Not sure what moksha and nirvana). He clearly said “He will kill 5000 hindus and hour” and I am not even going to search that anymore but that is known fact. I do not like to debate on known facts. Ok, he was probably pissed off about something but instead of hating the haters he just clearly stated his hatred for Hindus. None, and I mean NONE of your gurus said anything about any group or killing them like that. No matter what you tell me it is hatred.

    “I am telling that no Hindu was replaced out of Amritsar and you are making comparions with the architect of worst ever genocides in human history. ”

    Who am I talking to? a 16 year old kid? Come one dude…I was just making a reference towards hatred. But fair enough, if Bhindranwale is your revered leader I need not offend so I am sorry. I still think he was hateful and not worthy of title, “Sant”

    “Sir not just MORE clear but crystal clear. We are debating on an extremely sentivie issue not a bollywood story.”

    If anything this would’ve been against my religion. Why would that be the most sensitive topic?

    “Sir you accepted that these practices have no rationale. So you mean irrationality caused no harm. If love to be irrational, i have nothing more to say.”

    No I did not say that….please don’t misquote me or this debate is over. That is the way of this selfish world, by making others look bad and grow, I do not play that game. The point here is yes, they are irrational. But they aren’t causing any harm to you or me or anyone. Does irrational practices cause riots and scams? No, if that was the case Sikhs would’ve never rioted or scammed, but Sikhs have rioted and There are Sikh scamsters too. But let’s say for a second that these irrational practices causes riots and scams then trust me, you as a Sikh will not be able to live with Any other religion in the world. Every religion has a lot of bads in them. None is perfect!

    “You know it is irrational, but you still do it. And that is THE BIGGEST HURDLE.”

    Dude…Big lecture on this irrationality. I already told you it is irrational and if I told you it is irrational, why would I do it? I have already accepted plenty of times that it is irrational now if you expect me to change the world, I cant until I change myself and that itself takes years. So relax about this irrationality. I am not supporting irrational things in anyway but at same time I do not want to take away people’s right to do whatever they want as long as there is no harm to others. That is called freedom of religion and you know that very well.

    “Irrationality at its best. Need more examples? You will many Babas giving funny solutions to people’s problems. Where? On National News Channels!!!!! And you love comparing India with the US ?”

    Now you are talking garbage and I am almost losing my hope in this debate. I am looking for intellectuals to debate with so at the end there is something to learn both for you and me and we admit where either one of us is wrong or right and we move on. I am not comparing US and India on everything except that freedom of religion. That has existed in India forever whether you want to agree or not. No one kills when that part of snake worship comes in to society, most people don’t do it but some do and if they do no one kills them. Try snake worship in Pakistan and you will know. Hopefully this point is clear for good.

    “That is Oh! you Animal (mind), why are you worshipping the Stone (idols), they don’t have any God”

    I did wanted to get back to you on this one. You Sikhs are becoming like Muslims, read, don’t understand and become fanatics about a single quote. You do not understand anything about bhakti or worship. Heck even Hindus will tell you the same about stones. In fact, you don’t even know the fact that in Hinduism believing in idols is only first stage and tru saint/yogi/gyani does not believe in idols. There is also no requirement to believe in Idols, heck you don’t even have to believe in God just like Buddhists.

    So yes, this quote exists in Sikhism but it is not saying Don’t believe in gods or idols of Ram or Krishna. It is saying when you make the stones your God that is the problem. You see, when you really believe in Idols you are not suppose to make that piece of Stone your God but life that the statue is based on your God and in fact, you are not going to gain Moksha by that, eventually, keeping your mind in good life your mind clears itself and starts meditating on ONE god.

    Heck I will tell you why for sure you don’t understand this quote and even your religion. While Sikhism says this quote, it also says that God resides in everything and everyone. So how about that Mr? Doesn’t that include stone? LOL…Now I know for fact that you don’t know what either verse from your own religion are saying.

    You Sikhs don’t understand and then are pointing fingers it is so depressing to argue with… Just because Hinduism is old, lot of irrationality has crept in and it will happen to every religion. In fact, polytheism is only one of the things you can do. IN fact, Hindu can be anything but just because all believe in polytheism doesn’t mean that is what Hinduism itself preaches nor does it mean there is anything wrong with it. Here is a quote from Wikipedia about what Hinduism encompasses…and it also proves to you that “Religious freedom” thing I told you about and it also proves to you the fact that Hindusim is no organized religion but belief of centuries of us Indians and that is why Hindu never has problem praying in Gurudhwara or jain temple or Buddhist temple or church, they wont have any issues going to mosque either but history has left that mark in their psyche. From where I look at, that is respectable. If you find disrespect in that I am sorry, you are not seeing the truth.

    “As an old religion, Hinduism inherits religious concepts spanning monotheism, polytheism, panentheism, pantheism, monism, and atheism among others”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism

  24. StopHatred January 10, 2014 at 3:29 am

    “From where I look at, that is respectable. If you find disrespect in that I am sorry, you are not seeing the truth”

    I wanted to clarify this quote so you don’t misquote me. I meant to say that from where I look at, the fact that Hindus can visit any place of worship and actually pray with heart actually means true religious freedom. No one is forcing Hindus to go to any of the non-hindu places of worship so they don’t go there to hate the god fo different religions. They are going there with true heart just like they would go to Hindu temple. That is respectable and I like that. Now Hindus like me can start to take away snake worship which is VERY small part of Hinduism but when you start suppressing anything and masses start believing in that supression, where do you stop? Then how do you tell the masses that ok, we either forced ortaught them that irrationality is wrong, snake worship is wrong then how do you tell the masses that going to non-hindu place of worship is right? No, Hindu like me would like to see Hindus the way they are, we should be able to go to any place of worship and pray our hearts out and if that means we have to live with some irrationality, then I guess it is OK. AND THAT IS WHAT I MEANT BY, WHEN YOU LET HUMANS GO FREE GREAT THINGS HAPPEN BUT IT IS GAURANTEED THAT SOME IRRATIONALITY WILL ALSO BE THERE. Please also respect some of our goods and stop pointing at only our bads without understanding.

    Neighter do you understand the quote about stones you posted nor do you understand Hinduism at all.

  25. StopHatred January 10, 2014 at 3:34 am

    “How? Would really love to know.”

    Why don’t you Wikipedia for once and you will see…

    Oh and no, I am not taking that quote away from you. Please don’t let anything I say hurt your pride. I don’t mean to say anything about that particular quote. What I was saying was about transcendental knowledge is great and that man is truly free is straight out of gnana yoga.

  26. StopHatred January 10, 2014 at 3:39 am

    ““From where I look at, that is respectable. If you find disrespect in that I am sorry, you are not seeing the truth””

    Sorry there is no edit button but I would like to add one more thing to this explanation. I said, “some irrationality has been there and that is OK”, does not mean I am saying that I am OK to live with irrationality. What I am saying is that no matter what you do, if you want freedom there will always be some irrationality and it can never stop. There will never be ideal and utopian world whether you have organized religion or religion like Hinduism. At least some its own irrationality Hindus are truly free. About this irrationality though…things are changing…more education is forcing people to evaluate themselves and educated folks can discrimate between right and wrong themselves and they are themselves keeping goods and throwing out bads. That is truly free souls.

  27. Jatinder Singh January 10, 2014 at 7:08 am

    Good Sir!!! the frustration of the bhoot ( your past beliefs) in your body (mind) shows that bhoot is about to leave your body.

    Good going, soon you will have a new birth (new vision and thoughts).

    1.”Listen man, you don’t know how to debat”

    Sir, you have used words like “obvious”, “known fact” at many places. I am debating keeping my feet on ground. You are flying in ambiguity with words as above.

    2. “I gave you that in last post of mine”

    Where? Any links. Your mere words can’t be reference. Reference is something from authenticated sources. I would even trust the biased Indian Media references in that regard.

    3. “ Don’t make me a liar. “

    Where did you give reference? It is you who is proving himself a liar, not anybody else?

    4. “I will not keep too much ego, ego is against growth and moksha”

    Sir you realized it too late. I have addressed you with utmost respect. But i am happy now you are talking of ‘Growth’ and ‘Moksha’, the rather than justifying idols/snakes/lingam etc.

    5. “He clearly said “He will kill 5000 hindus and hour”

    CLEARLY said???? Did you listen him saying? Or reported in any media?

    Sir please now don’t say it is “OBVIOUS” or “KNOWN FACT”. It was obvious few centuries ago that Earth is flat and Galileo was imprisoned and killed for opposing this OBVIOUS fact. Provide some solid proof. I think you need to research on Propaganda theories that States use to engineer the masses so as to make them hate particular personalities/religions/societies.

    6. “ I am not even going to search that anymore”

    Yes because you know you won’t find any references.

    7. “None, and I mean NONE of your gurus said anything about any group or killing them like that”

    Please explain it.

    8. “Who am I talking to? a 16 year old kid? Come one dude…I was just making a reference towards hatred”

    Sir what is this? If you are free to chose any references then the purpose of making references is vanished. References are made to anchor your thoughts to some relevant (or similar) situation.

    Okay, if i am explaining love for God, can make reference to a bollywood masala movie?

    9. “I still think he was hateful and not worthy of title, “Sant”“

    Sir, “ I think” is the attitude that we question in a debate. Debates are meant to surface truths. If you have to express your thoughts, blogging or other one way communication platforms would be better.

    Here in a debate, you have to prove your point, providing some authenticated sources. And if you can’t then you have to admit it. Rigidness is not the way as you said ego is enemy of Moksha.

    10. “If anything this would’ve been against my religion. Why would that be the most sensitive topic? “

    Read carefully what you have written. It is a sensitive issue.

    11. “please don’t misquote me or this debate is over”

    Threatening innocent creatures of Almighty is also against Moksha, dear sir.

    12. “That is the way of this selfish world, by making others look bad and grow, I do not play that game”

    Sir self-admiration could be a barrier to Moksha. The path to moksha is to believe

    “Hum Nahi Change (good) , Bura Nahi Koye”

    That is I am not good and others are not evil.

    13. “The point here is yes, they are irrational. But they aren’t causing any harm to you or me or anyone. Does irrational practices cause riots and scams? No, if that was the case Sikhs would’ve never rioted or scammed, but Sikhs have rioted and There are Sikh scamsters too.”

    Sir i you had read my earlier post, i have replied to this argument of yours in a big detail. If you still want, tell me, i will explain it.

    See on our journey as humans we are moving from being Animals (Irrational) to Godly (Rational). That is from being in a jungle ( characterized by fear, force, riots, killings) to being in an utopian world.

    Okay no lectures. Sir, irrationality is very very important trait of Crowd or Herd psychology. And this psychology causes everything from riots to stock market crashes and financial scams. Just one example.

    14. “Now you are talking garbage and I am almost losing my hope in this debate”

    Sir repeating my words on irrationality was due to mis-communication from my side. But certainly it was not Garbage.
    And why are you losing hope? Try giving some fact/figures.

    15 “ I am not comparing US and India on everything except that freedom of religion. That has existed in India forever”

    Forever!!!! Sir a country where you pour melted lead metal into the ears of shudras who dared to listen to and read vedas, where lacs of Bodhis were massacred, Jains were massacred. Recently a christian missionary was burnt alive.

    Sir, is this what we call Freedom of Religion. It never existed, not even in Western World (except modern day America.

    I have not counted Sikh genocide.

    Forever. How can you forget what Aurangzeb did to Hindus?

    And sir, all i have said is very well quoted in books of indian history itself. Search it. If you don’t find any references, tell me i will definitely provide many unlike you (you haven’t given even a single reference to prove your accusation on Sant Ji)

    16. “You Sikhs are becoming like Muslims, read, don’t understand and become fanatics about a single quote”

    So that is what we call fanaticism at its best. Let the anger come out of you. I have capacity to absorb it all like Shiva absorbed the poison from Samudra Manthan. This debate is a manthan and see poison inside you is coming out.

    Not a single quote. Need more?

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/4215-sikhism-and-idol-worshipping.html

    Full discussion on idol worship.

    Example: “Jo Pathar ko Kehte Dev, Ta Ki Birtha Hove Sev”

    One who calls the stone his Dev (God) his bhakti goes wasted.

    Sir again i am not speaking without references. You also please find some to prove your points otherwise your frustration will burst beyond imagination.

    17. “You do not understand anything about bhakti or worship.”

    Sir Sikhism is all about Bhakti Movement. All out Guru Granth Sahib is Bhakti nothing else. Still you are right, i don’t understand it. You know it is deeper than what we can even imagine. Quite deep.

    18. “Heck even Hindus will tell you the same about stones.”

    Sir why do they practice it. So it means difference in Kehni and Kathni?

    19. “ Hinduism believing in idols is only first stage and tru saint/yogi/gyani does not believe in idols”

    Sir still stick in first stage. Please move to the second. It is too late, there are too many stages and only few years in hand.

    20. “There is also no requirement to believe in Idols, heck you don’t even have to believe in God just like Buddhists. “

    Sir, that is difference. On one extreme (you call first stage) you find God in stones and Other extreme (last stage?) , you deny existence of God. Not good? God exists.

    “Aad Sach, Jugaad Sach.
    Hai Bhi Sach, Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach”

    God is Truth and Existent from ages and He will be forever.

    21. “So yes, this quote exists in Sikhism but it is not saying Don’t believe in gods or idols of Ram or Krishna”

    You want to hear what Sikhism does not even believe in King Rama of your stories. Want to hear what Nanak says

    “Rove Raam Nikala Bhaya, Sita Lachman Bichad Gaya”

    “King Ram cries as he has to leave Ayodhya and now Sita and Lachman have separated from him.” Now how can Ram (if he is all potent God) cry over anything.

    Sir the Ram Katha which Guru believes in has no relevance with Ram of your stories. The stone in the quote i mentioned in earlier post was idols of Rama and Krishna.

    22. “While Sikhism says this quote, it also says that God resides in everything and everyone. So how about that Mr? Doesn’t that include stone? LOL”

    You are truly a genius Sir. And i too like you relish your shrewdness.

    If God is everywhere why idols of Durga you revere? Why not idols of Rakhi Sawant?

    And i admit i know nothing of what Guru says and pray to give me humility and ability to learn.

    22. “Just because Hinduism is old, lot of irrationality has crept in”

    Justified Sir. But i just emphasize getting out of irrationality.

    23. “In fact, polytheism is only one of the things you can do”

    Sorry Sir, not for sikhs. The very first word my Guru says is

    “Ek Oankar” That is the one from whom universe originate is ONE and only ONE.

    24. “ IN fact, Hindu can be anything but just because all believe in polytheism doesn’t mean that is what Hinduism itself preaches nor does it mean there is anything wrong with it”

    Sir, get out of grey shades. “Hindu can be anything” is what i object the most (not Hinduism but this thought of masses.) Sir nobody can tide over the ocean footing on two boats. And you are saying many boats.

    25. “Here is a quote from Wikipedia about what Hinduism”

    It is good to see that you went to Wikipedia to read about the religion you have been practicing for years. Nice. But get deeper.

    26. “Hindusim is no organized religion but belief of centuries of us Indians”

    ABSOLUTELY sir. We are coming on track. This is the first time that i am in complete agreement with you that Hinduism is not a religion but “”“”BELIEFS OF CENTURIES”

    Now sir, don’t you think that CENTURIES OLD BELIEFS need to be challenged? Forget for one moment any religion and animosity and think on it.

    27 “hat is why Hindu never has problem praying in Gurudhwara or jain temple or Buddhist temple or church, they wont have any issues going to mosque either”

    Sir this is the problem that they don’t have problem praying anywhere. See my Guru says that the way to feel True Lord is to Understand the Word (Shabad or wisdom) of Guru (Written in Guru Granth Sahib), not to pray blindly anywhere, gurdwara or mosque. Few rose above normality to understand the fact and that is why there are few who truly are Sikh (a learner from words of Guru). Ones you see in Turbans with Full beards are those who just think but are not Sikh. Kabir didn’t had a full beard or a turban!!! And if you want reference, i will definitely provide it from Guru Granth Shaib itself.

    28. “From where I look at, that is respectable. If you find disrespect in that I am sorry,”

    Sir it is not about respect or disrespect. Not about winning or losing debate. It is only about surfacing Truth.

    29. “No one is forcing Hindus to go to any of the non-hindu places of worship”

    Sir this is what i am saying, there are no PLACES or IDOLS of worship. There is nothing like Worshiping God. It is about grasping the wisdom. I never asked anything about your vedas. Because i believe they could be a source of some sort of wisdom (i never read any).

    30. “ if that means we have to live with some irrationality, then I guess it is OK”

    Sir it is okay on their part as they are in dark but not on your as you know it is irrational. Your role is to tell them what is right.

    31. “There will never be ideal and utopian”

    There will be an utopian world or not, we don’t have right to give our verdict on it. It is like saying i accept that i can’t score 100 so i am targeting for 80. But sir this way you will end up just 60. So you lost 40.

    32. “ At least some its own irrationality Hindus are truly free”

    Never deny that. People like Vivekananda, Vidyasagar were Hindus. Education really helps people come out of dark and that truly is happening. But still there are miles and miles to go.

    As “Vidya Vichari, Ta Paropkari”

    That is, the true words of Guru, if pondered upon, only then can be of any good to self and society. See without pondering upon (manthan), even the words of Guru can’t liberate us from the chains of our past animal instincts.

  28. Jatinder Singh January 10, 2014 at 7:31 am

    “While Sikhism says this quote, it also says that God resides in everything and everyone. So how about that Mr? Doesn’t that include stone? LOL”

    Sir you are on track. This is the reason why my Guru abstains me to restrict God in Stones or idols (these day Photographs) as the Nirankar God is everywhere. But He can be found from within yourself. And that is the importance of Human Life. Though God is present in Animals (and stones) but only human beings, with the words (wisdom) of true Guru, can feel and find Him.

  29. StopHatred January 10, 2014 at 11:40 pm

    “Where? Any links”

    Are you saying, you did not say the below in your post on jan 8 2014 at 5:10 AM?

    “And truth is that irrational practices (like Rass Leela/ Linga Puja/ idol worship) give birth to irrationality in human beings which in turn result in evil instances like riots, scandals. ”

    You are straightly saying that these practices of Hinduism are giving birth to scandals and riots. Which you know very well is not true. I proved it to you with examples of Pakistan and Sikhs riots that it is not true. So you are obviously blaming Hinduism up to some point for riots that has affected your community. Now it is up to you to prove that it is these instances that cause riots and scandals then you need to prove what is causing Muslims and SIkhs to riot?

    This kind of stuff angers me Jatinder. I clearly told you and My reply to you also noted the same thing that I just typed. Yet you keep telling me that I am not giving you any links or evidence. It seems this debate would not go on for too long. I am honest person and I have no problem accepting whatever the truth is but I do have problem with this kind of debate where you wrongly just put blame on other party.

    “Please explain it.”

    Dude….Just let it go now. I posted that right after I was talking about Bhindranwale and so I was clearly saying that none of your gurus out of anger or anything said anything about killing based on religion/sect/race/caste or anything. but Bhindranwale did.

    “Yes because you know you won’t find any references.”

    What did you want people o have iphones back then to make a video and post it for you? Here it is from Sikh times and from Sikh poster himself and if you google many Sikhs themselves are saying that I don’t agree with sant ji saying of killing hindus.

    http://sikhtimes.com/bios_060604a.html

    “Sir, “ I think” is the attitude that we question in a debate. Debates are meant to surface truths.”

    Read the link above…

    “Threatening innocent creatures of Almighty is also against Moksha, dear sir.”

    So, saying that this debate is over is a threat? I don’t understand you….you talk of highest morals et el but you seem to be pretty basic in your understanding and comprehension or you are intentionally lying or saying things to make me look wrong.

    “Forever!!!! Sir a country where you pour melted lead metal into the ears of shudras who dared to listen to and read vedas, where lacs of Bodhis were massacred, Jains were massacred. Recently a christian missionary was burnt alive. ”

    Ok, I am not aware of particular instance of pouring melted metal in shudra’s ears but yes Shundras were treated very badly. Please provide link of your claim that Bodhis and Jains were massacred. Yes a Christian missionary was massacred and the killers got justice. But over all, unless you provide links that Bodhis and Jains were massacred, this does not prove that religious freedom did not exist in India.

    “So that is what we call fanaticism at its best. Let the anger come out of you”

    Yes, I re-iterate again. You Sikhs are becoming like Muslims. You totally misunderstand quotes in your own religion and holding that in your hand you start pointing fingers at others. Just like you have done. Where is lie or fanaticism in that?

    “Sir why do they practice it. So it means difference in Kehni and Kathni?”

    NO…They practice for very reason you don’t understand. I explained in last post and I will not waste my time again. You need to understand Hinduism and heck, even your own religion before you start making assessment and claims of reason and analysis.

    “Never deny that. People like Vivekananda, Vidyasagar were Hindus. Education really helps people come out of dark and that truly is happening. But still there are miles and miles to go.”

    So then what is your problem? NOT even Hindus will say that there are no problems in Hinduism. No one is claiming it to be perfect. There sure is irrationality in Hinduism. But at same time we have lots of greatness too. So what really is your problem? They should all subscribe to what you think is true? Or should Hindus go out and ban Hindus practices that are irrational. In fact, no democratic court in world will ban that unless those beliefs are causing harm to anyone else. I will be first to agree, in last 100-200 years the growth of Hindu religion has stopped. Spirituality has stopped otherwise it evolved for thousands of years. So yes, some irrationality has crept in and because of lack of that growth it is hard to change it. But even with that, go ahead and give one solution that is democratically correct? Just one solution please. And mind you…don’t give solutions of psychological, emotional, social, physical abuse to stop them from believing in that or converting them to any other belief because with that India will become like Pakistan and I will be the first to oppose that. So go ahead Mr. Give some solutions.

  30. Anonymous January 11, 2014 at 3:36 pm

    1. “Are you saying, you did not say the below in your post on jan 8 2014 at 5:10 AM?”

    Good going !!…you at last have understood what we call references…stay in for some more time…we will teach you how to debate..

    You have quoted me…but only half the sentence…you are a manuplator…(Now my belief has got stronger that we can’t expect anything from people who call their God a Challiya (trickster)…

    My full statement was “And truth is that irrational practices (like Rass Leela/ Linga Puja/ idol worship) give birth to irrationality in human beings which in turn result in evil instances like riots, scandals. Now this irrationality could be in any religion, be it sikh, hindu, jain, muslim, christians, jews, gnostics, Bodhis or others…On our part, the best we can do is to sit CALMLY in silence and think honestly on our blind faiths so that we, as a human race, may progress from being animals to being truly godly beings.”

    Did you read it….I clearly mentioned ANY Religion and Named all the religions Including SIkhism…

    2. “Now it is up to you to prove that it is these instances that cause riots and scandals then you need to prove what is causing Muslims and SIkhs to riot?”

    Laughable…you don’t have time ( or mind) to read things..I have explained it….Just search following phrase in inverted commas (just ctrl S)…

    ”Sir I clearly stated at more than one places that irrationality in any religion is harmful. And yes irrationality gives birth to riots and scandals. Let me give an example. Rational Sant Kabir says”

    You can also search keyword “Crash” i explained that irrationality gives rise to riots (crowd psychology) and stock crashes.

    You seem to suffer from Short Memory (the one like Gajni, you saw it?)

    3. “Here it is from Sikh times and from Sikh poster himself and if you google many Sikhs themselves are saying that I don’t agree with sant ji saying of killing hindus.”

    Ah!!! This Mr Chand Joshi is the most (and the only) sought references when it comes to prove Sant Bhindrawalan a terrorist.

    Still good….you got to know what i was asking for ..reference….Now i will give you one. Here is it.

    http://www.partitionofindia.com/_archive/0000013e.htm

    And unlike you, i will give you the phrase that you need to search so as to save your time (and may be Mind)…Keyword is “ Dr. Ranbir Singh (Sandhu), Professor Emeritus at Ohio State University”….Now she this man has proven credibility unlike Mr Chand Joshi. And i will give more keyword so that you may directly get to what i want you to know…Phrase to search is “The Bhindranwale that emerges from these speeches bears no resemblance to the terrorist ogre he has been made out to be”……

    And you didn’t answer why no Hindu left Amritsar even when you so called Terroritst with Guns and Grenades was sitting in their vicinity???

    See, I have no objection to change my opinions if you are able to convince me…..but i expect same sort genuine-ity from you too.

    4. “I am not aware of particular instance of pouring melted metal in shudra’s ears but “

    Here we go “http://searchlight-is-on.blogspot.in/2013/08/assault-on-shudras.html”

    This reference may or may not be authentic but you have power of internet so you can find more. If you can’t i will certainly help you :)

    5. “ Please provide link of your claim that Bodhis and Jains were massacred.”

    You don’t need to ask for it again. Here it is “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Buddhism_in_India”

    For Jains “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madurai_massacre”

    Jains were also massacred by Ashoka. I did not mention that as Ashoka was Budhist ( though he ought to be mentioned as we are discussing religious freedom in India not any religion in particular).

    6. “You totally misunderstand quotes in your own religion and holding that in your hand you start pointing fingers at others”

    Which quotes are you referring here to? I think i know and i have proved my point too. Search following phrase

    “Ram Katha which Guru believes in has no relevance with Ram of your stories”….

    7. “They practice for very reason you don’t understand. I explained in last post and I will not waste my time again.”

    Where did you explain. Irrationality is why they practice. They practice because they are blind. Intellectually handicapped they are. See how it is

    I so far have been quite defensive (just answering and clarifying your doubts). I have few questions which i need answer from you. PLEASE ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS AND don’t feel that is my hatred towards you and your religion. Just my curiosity.

    a. Everyone (you said only few following irrational practices) of you, goes to so many temples all around India and pours milk (instead of drinking themselves) on a statue of Lingam (Human Pen*s) placed in Y*ni (Human Vag*na). And not only this, you have found one ICE lingam in Amarnath.

    b. You make millions of statues of half human/half elephant god ganesha every year. And throw those statues in sea in a period of few days. This practice which is only a century (at most) olld is a cause of big concern for environmentalists.

    c. Your saints like Asaram (and believe me there are thousands other), on the name of Raas Leela (you call it Bhakti), have been raping hundreds of girls for so many years. They are so powerful that even state itself fears to capture them.

    d. You said things like snake worship are rare. And what about Cow ? What about mouse (there is one of most prominent temples of yours where you worship mouses).

    e. Raam Leela is one of the most important events for you. And don’t deny that bollywood (vulgar) dance performance is one of the biggest attractions of these leelas that too all over India.

    f. Your Jagratas? Why you play bollywood songs on Jagratas. This practice is prevalent everywhere in India.

    g. What is Raas Leela? Tell me? Explain it?

    f. Why your God Krishna used to take pleasure in stealing the clothes of girls who used to bathe in rivers. And even if he did, why are you so happy telling those stories?

    g. And your irrationality and shamelessness is not limited to India. Some day take some time to read what Mr Robert Cialdini (respected name in human psychology) has to say about Hare Krishna People in the US.

    h. How do you believe stories like Ganesha was born of the sweat and dirt of Shiva’s body. Majority of populace trust these and watch with utmost respect these TV soaps on almost every channel.

    i. And have you read Mahabharta in detail? Search following phrase “The Bheel Mahabharata and Tale of Draupadi”

    j. Why things like caste system (still prevalent in most of India) are found in your religious texts.

    k. How women have been treated in your religiou texts?

    8. “ some irrationality has crept in and because of lack of that growth it is hard to change it..”

    Some irrationality? Whatever you found above is “Some Irrationality”

    Crept In??? Most of it is written in your RELIGIOUS TEXTS.
    9. “So go ahead Mr. Give some solutions.”

    No. I won’t give any. In fact I won’t even reply your posts. You need to re-read the entire text here. You are asking same things again and again.

Leave A Response